Tag Archives: ethics and morality

Hi, uh. I tend to be neutral to pro in the ~shipscourse~ but there is one ship that I am very aggressively against because it involves me and someone who harmed me in my source (I’m a fictive with memories). I will complain about and insult the ship in private with friends but I have never posted anything outwardly hateful about it to anyone who does ship it. Still, I cannot help but feel negatively toward those who do ship this pairing and think badly of them because of it. I really hope this doesn’t make me a hypocrite.

I don’t think that makes you a hypocrite, anon.

People, all people, are allowed to have ships they don’t like. You’re allowed to complain about it an insult it in private.

As long as you’re not being outwardly hostile to the people who ship it, you’re not doing anything wrong.

We’re in the same boat as you are. There are people who have hurt us in our kin lives that we just can’t forgive or accept. We don’t like to see art or fic of them. It makes us a little ill.

Remember, its not what you think about people that matters, its about your actions.

All the judgemental and nasty thoughts in the world won’t hurt a person until you actually directly act on them.

I hate the stereotype that if you hurt animals as a kid you were gonna be a serial killer kids aren’t the best at emotion management, might be curious, and might not be able to empathize yet and kids (especially tism kids) hurting animals is extremely common and most people aren’t serial killers so Its not good to hurt animals ofc but it doesnt mean a kid is a monster if they do that

People love stereotypes.

They love to put other people in neat boxes with clear identities.

People especially love to be able to put labels on things they think are dangerous, because they think it makes them safer.

It’s instinctive, I think.

People like to think “if this, then that” is always true, because it makes them feel safe.

It makes them feel like they know where the danger is.

It makes them feel like the danger is outside themselves.

It makes them sure that they are not the dangerous ones.

It isn’t true.

Hurting animals is bad. Hurting animals is always bad.

Children do a lot of things that are bad, and hurtful.

Children and learning and growing.

Let people learn and grow, instead of putting them into boxes.

I’m so glad you said “enjoying bad throughts doesn’t make you bad” cause everyone always says “as long as your intrusive thoughts upset or scare you then you are a good person”

The only thing that makes you a bad person is deliberately doing actual, real harmful actions.

You can enjoy all the bad thoughts in your head I will never, ever make you a bad person.

blackheart-biohazards:

If you are a person who:

  • Has violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive thoughts
  • Enjoys having violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive thoughts
  • Enjoys fiction with violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive characters
  • Creates fiction with violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive chacters

And you do not actually do any violent, abusive, harmful or destructive actions

You are not a bad person.

You are a good person.

Thoughts and fiction do not define morality.

Actions define morality.

Having or enjoying bad thoughts or bad fiction doesn’t mean you will act on those feelings.

Liking negative themes in fiction or having daydreams about harmful actions will not cause you to do harm.

Thoughts and fiction aren’t harmful.

do you/followers have any tips for unlearning anti rhetoric? was never an anti myself (i’ve honestly retreated into the proshipping ‘closet’ over time, unfortunately) but after years online the constant hatred has worn me down and i’ve experienced myself internalizing antis’ views in a way that really really sucks ): mostly what i’m scared about is the fact that i want to talk about these things but i’m terrified of harassment.

noa-ciharu:

blackheart-biohazards:

My personal best tip is to separate yourself from the people and places you think will harass you.

Start a new, proship-aligned online identity, block anyone you think might run into and recognize you immediately, and just start posting and making friends!

Our followers may have some more tips for you for unlearning the actual anti rhetoric.

Anon I’ve been in your shoes when I was around 18. Never been an anti but that doesn’t mean you can’t have internalized anti/puritant views on specific issues you’re unaware of. That’s actually very common experience, even with people who are for ship and let ship

Whenever you feel like shipping something is immoral or “if I like AxB, what does that say about me?” just step away from all emotions related things and ask yourself – how precisely does shipping this make me a bad person? (It doesn’t) How precisely am I “romanticizing” xyz when my reactions to xyz in fiction and irl couldn’t be more different? (It’s fiction, not how to xyz guide not morality guide). Who precisely am I hurting and how?

And soon you’ll start realizing that those questions around morality begin falling apart once you objectively observe the situation.

When I started shipping one ship that was toxic on steroids, I had similar internalized antis views. ‘I can’t like this, it’s wrong on so many levels’. Then I had fortunate, or actually misfortune, that someone close to me irl was in extremely toxic relationship. It lasted for several months and was pretty ugly. To cut story short – I can to realization that shipping unhealthy dynamics in fiction didn’t cloud my judgment one bit. Same tropes I liked seeing in fanfics I despised and deeply reprimanded irl (such as jealousy or stalking). So it helped me realize that liking xyz in fiction or shipping AxB no matter how wrapped speaks absolutely nothing about my morals or views on life/relationships

la-niolue:

“All right,” said Susan, “I’m not stupid. You’re saying humans need…fantasies to make life bearable.”

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

“Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—”

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

“So we can believe the big ones?”

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

“They’re not the same at all!”

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME… SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

“Yes. But people have got to believe that, or what’s the point—”

MY POINT EXACTLY.

Hogfather

antishipping-positivity:

Reminder that if you’re a proshipper, you need to…

– Be ok with whitewashing/erasing identities

– Be ok with nazi glorification

– Be ok with people liking the idea of killing and maiming fictional proshippers

– Not complain about how a place is not a safespace for you

– Be ok with violence against certain groups being shown in a positive light (By your beliefs, since that is just a concept like rape, children, and animals, that’s OK. “But those groups are real!” Yeah and so are children, animals, and rape survivors. “But those people don’t own the concept! I’m not attracted to real kids, only ones that are fake! You can think about fake people in a way you wouldn’t think of real people!” So you agree that I should write minorities as whatever because I’m just exploring fiction? Great! No? Make up your mind.)

– Not harass antis (this includes breaking dnis)

– Not be angry at propaganda

– Not be fuming at offensive stereotypes in fiction (like that Disney Peter Pan scene)

– Not demand representation in fiction

– Not use the term purity culture for antis (yall complain about watering down words… then water down words)

– Filter anti tags and not put yourself in anti communities

– Not be upset when the only representation of a group is when they’re bad.

…or else you’re a hypocrite

Yes, as a proshipper you need to be okay with these things existing.

You don’t have to look at them, agree with them or personally give them a platform.

This is what antis don’t understand.

ETA: Also, you can’t both address a post to proshippers AND say proshippers DNI. That’s rather hypocritical of you, isn’t it?

If you are a person who:

  • Has violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive thoughts
  • Enjoys having violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive thoughts
  • Enjoys fiction with violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive characters
  • Creates fiction with violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive chacters

And you do not actually do any violent, abusive, harmful or destructive actions

You are not a bad person.

You are a good person.

Thoughts and fiction do not define morality.

Actions define morality.

Having or enjoying bad thoughts or bad fiction doesn’t mean you will act on those feelings.

Liking negative themes in fiction or having daydreams about harmful actions will not cause you to do harm.

Thoughts and fiction aren’t harmful.

You can be disgusted by something without that thing being immoral or evil.

You can be disgusted by something without attacking, insulting, or harassing the people who are doing the thing that disgusts you.

Disgust does not determine morality.

Attacking someone for doing something that you find disgusting is wrong.

Falsely accusing someone of a crime for doing something that you consider disgusting or immoral is wrong.

Conflating the creation and consumption of fiction that you find disgusting with inherent immorality or criminality is wrong.

how do you feel about proshippers responding to death threats with “no u first”

We’re not a huge fan of it, but we wouldn’t unfollow somebody over it, or blame them for it.

A death threat message is targeted violence against the person it’s sent to. I can’t blame someone for responding violently against a direct, personal attack.

What we can’t stand is generalized violent messages toward people who haven’t personally done anything to you specifically.

It’s one thing to respond to a threat, it’s another thing entirely to fire shots into a crowd.