Tag Archives: proship discourse

It seems like, even in proship circles, a LOT of people think ‘paraphillia’ means SPECIFICALLY attraction to children and/or animals. And like… that’s just incorrect. That falls under the definition, but being into feet or spanking or leather fall under the definition to—it’s just a broad thing meaning not entirely average sexual interests. Being gay used to be considered paraphilia. Seeing otherwise progressive people saying “people with paraphilias need mental help, not validation” just makes me kind of sad.

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People like to boil things down to their ‘simplest’ definition.

The simplest definition also is the one that lacks nuance.

Paraphilias are thoughts and feelings.

If we believe that thoughts and feelings do not equate to harm, then we must believe that paraphilias are not inherently harmful no matter what they are..

However, many people are uncomfortable with discussing thee topics due to how taboo many of them are in our purity driven society.

Proshipping specifically is about fiction, so I can’t blame anyone who is proship for just not wanting to talk about paraphilia discourse. We don’t particularly want to discuss it either.

It’s a hotbutton topic.

As for where we stand, our position continues to be as with everything else, that thoughts are not harmful, only harmful actions are harmful.

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blackheart-biohazards:

If you are a person who:

  • Has violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive thoughts
  • Enjoys having violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive thoughts
  • Enjoys fiction with violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive characters
  • Creates fiction with violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive chacters

And you do not actually do any violent, abusive, harmful or destructive actions

You are not a bad person.

You are a good person.

Thoughts and fiction do not define morality.

Actions define morality.

Having or enjoying bad thoughts or bad fiction doesn’t mean you will act on those feelings.

Liking negative themes in fiction or having daydreams about harmful actions will not cause you to do harm.

Thoughts and fiction aren’t harmful.

discourse is too kind a word and it imples an actual discussion. I’m no longer using it in terms of shipping/fandom drama. to me? it’s fandom wank again baybeee

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Honestly agree, and have been tagging #fandom wank a lot these days. We still use discourse in tags because we know a lot of people use that term to filter out posts they don’t want to see.

One of the smaller things I hate about (most) anti is how.. in denial they are about their own hypocrisydo some people who are proship not take criticism well? Yeah, but that’s generally not because they’re proship it’s because they either didn’t what the criticism (not all criticism is welcome, especially when on something done for fun) or just aren’t good with dealing with it. It’s happens it’s not a “group specific thing”, it’s just people.(You’s are general)you tell some to die? Not criticism you are at best, being an asshole.someone tells you your troll fic “wasn’t fun”, that is criticism, and vaild. Especially when it already breaks site (ao3) rules.You tell someone that their miss tagged work made you uncomfortable and they should fix the mistake? That’s not an entirely unreasonable request, and yet could be considered criticism. You tell someone that their correctly tagged work made you uncomfortable and they shouldn’t write it? Not criticism, you ignored tag and warnings that were put in place for you. If you’re uncomfortable that’s fine, nothing wrong with that but that doesn’t remove the right of the work.I guess I’m just tired of people getting mad, because someone didn’t like the criticism they left on a work they did for fun and didn’t even want criticism on.criticism isn’t a bad thing, but it needs to be used in the right places and times. Someday AU fanart doesn’t need a 3 page eassy on why is “so uncanon”

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Well said, anon.

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antishipping:

Hey folks.

I’ve been getting a LOT of asks like this, and I apologize for not answering them. I meant to make this post ages ago, but I kept putting it off which always lead me to forgetting about it as a whole, and then I always end up getting a new anon asking the same question, and then I’m like “oh fuck, that’s right, I gotta explain why I don’t call myself a proshipper”.

so uh, let me actually explain why! 🙂

Keep reading

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It’s always okay to feel that something is: icky, gross, upsetting, disturbing, disgusting, repellant, triggering, nasty, weird, unsightly or in bad taste.

What isn’t okay is: insulting that thing to it’s creators face, wishing violence on that thing’s creator and people who support them, claiming the person who created it is a bad person for making it, telling people they arent allowed to make or enjoy things that you personally dont like.

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“Proship” means you don’t believe people should be harassed, threatened or insulted for the fiction and art they create, even if you personally find what they’re making to be gross, upsetting or in some way immoral.

“Proship” means you believe that all fiction and art has a right to exist, and should be available to access for those who want to see it, and available to be blocked and avoided by those who don’t want to see it.

That’s everything proship means.

Ship and let ship.

Don’t like? Don’t read.

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I want every person involved in the debate about proship/antiship, censorship of fiction, harassment, art by traumatized and mentally ill people and what art constitutes “pedo shit” to please:

watch this documentary about Henry Darger, or at least read up about him and his fiction.

Saw the documentary many years ago around when it was released and we feel like it very much informed many of our opinions on the subject.

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things-antis-say:

honestly, i don’t see proship as fandom drama. for me, this stance is an extension of my anti censorship beliefs in general. there’s so many different groups in the world who wants to control people, via thoughts and surveillance and what books you can read. i think anti censorship is one of the most important and crucial things to fight for. i can’t do much for the world at large, but having a small pocket like this blog makes me feel less overwhelmed by it all

if you think this is just “terminally online” fandom discourse that no adult with a job would care about, then you’re doing their job for them

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dead-pidove-do-not-eat:

“Liking taboo thing in fiction is FINE, but god forbid u make it SEXY and HORNY!!!”

Not 2 be rude but what the fuck. Just because there are erotic elements and shit added doesn’t suddenly make people lose all sense of morality.

This idea that “desire” is this all powerful feeling that can make you lose control and disregard morals is an argument created to protect rapists. It attempts to absolve guilt of violation from parties who disregard other parties consent (or disregard if they even CAN consent.) by incorrectly smearing sexual desire and the strength of that desire as something that can even overpower self control, it gives a justification and leeway as to why a party violated another parties consent.

Sexual desire and horniness don’t work like that, have never worked like that and never WILL work like that. And to even entertain the argument as valid even for a second? Is fucking dangerous. I get that these sexual feelings are scary especially when they’re geared towards something “strange” and “weird” or morally reprehensible irl. But falling back on arguments used to perpetuate rape culture to try and justify why it’s “wrong” when all it does is cause personal discomfort is like… actually really bad.